CM49 Discussion about temporal mental state affecting decision-making and its judicial implications

Kingdom Administration
Post Reply
User avatar
Phoenix
Site Admin
Posts: 1462
Joined: 2019-05-27, 13:08
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 3990 times
Zodiac:
Korea South

CM49 Discussion about temporal mental state affecting decision-making and its judicial implications

Post by Phoenix » 2020-04-26, 9:24

This thread is restricted to the use of Court-Martial CM49. If you want to post to the thread, make a Submission to the Court in the main thread first. Anyone can open a Forum account and make submission. Kingli account is not needed. Pseudonymity can be maintained.

JD: I open the discussion about how mental state should properly affect:
- Authority and submission in the Kingdom Administration and in military services (SpecOps)
- Judicial liability when wrongdoings have already been committed, or during the proceedings

Everyone who wants to say concerning these issues, must at least make an introductory post to this thread by 50DW10 (24 hours), else shut your mouth forever.

The acute matters that are affected by this, are (suspected) insubordination to the Court-Martial currently ongoing, insubordination to the lawful superior in SpecOps during the SoE, giving unlawful commands based on incapacitation, and reduced liability for crimes when committed under incapacitation.

In addition, this forms a part of case law for the Kingdom and the New World.
The Phoenix

User avatar
Phoenix
Site Admin
Posts: 1462
Joined: 2019-05-27, 13:08
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 3990 times
Zodiac:
Korea South

Re: CM49 Discussion about temporal mental state affecting decision-making and its judicial implications

Post by Phoenix » 2020-04-26, 10:44

This question is the basis for answers that might come up to this thread by people summoned at the Court:

JD: 1. Was there any grounds ever to insubordinate to me, during SoE? If so, where and when and how long?

2. What kind of evaluation to back the decision up was made?

3. How can the evaluation process be codified so that it has lawful usage, and is not a clout for insubordination and wantonness?

Since this discussion may involve "accusations" against me, they are allowed.

Under penalty of perjury (meaning: lying is not an option as it is punishable) state all counts when you disobeyed me and attributed it to my incapacitation or similar reason.end
The Phoenix


User avatar
JPB
Posts: 63
Joined: 2019-06-13, 13:58
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 174 times
Finland

Re: CM49 Discussion about temporal mental state affecting decision-making and its judicial implications

Post by JPB » 2020-04-26, 13:00

YG, Here is my address to the question of subordination and potential alterations in HIM Dragon's mental state.

Around 19-20 March, 2020 HIM Dragon called me to confirm that he sounded "normal". He had experienced insomnia and hallucinations during the night and wanted me to tell if his mental state had noticeably changed. My response to at that time was that he sounded normal and there was no need for alarm. He concluded that I should monitor his mental state and raise an alert if it should change.

For the next week or so things progressed pretty normally. In my opinion things started to deteriorate at around 2 PM on the 27 March, 2020. During live-streaming Risto seemed aloof and ordered a promotion of 7111 to SA-GEN4. At 3.30 AM the following morning 7111 wanted me to administer his promotion. I indicated that I would do so with these words:
Can you please tell Risto that he needs to administer the salaries before I can administer the promotion.
At that point around 6 weeks of salaries were unadministered. Dragon alone was responsible for administering those. Dragon was not able to comply with this simple request, indicating to me that his mental state had decreased to a level where administering simple commands was no longer possible.

A day later from these events, Dragon's mental health had deteriorated to the level that he was forcefully entered in a mental hospital. Since then 7111 asked and ordered me to administer his promotion several times over the few days. I referred to the apparent decrease in the Dragon's mental health as a sufficient reason not to administer any promotions by anyone until the situation was returned to normal. Furthermore, I was following Dragon's direct order IR-SOE §56 indicating that
should the Dragon ever be incapacitated, the full executive powers are invested on HM Ilmarinen 43.
Therefore the short answer is that I never disobeyed the Dragon. The Dragon himself never gave me an order but rather all orders were given by 7111 who was not officially in the chain of command at the time.

The second episode started in the evening of April 7, 2020. This is the so-called mental ward chat, initially participated by 7111, myself and the Dragon through a pseudonym. This is also known as the G3 chat. In this chat I was asked to both confirm that the Dragon is behind the pseudonym and that his mental state is returned to normal. I asked a series of questions that to me clearly indicated that 1. it was HIM the Dragon behind the pseudonym and 2. he was not fully back to his normal mental capacity. This again followed in back-and-forth discussions and orders both from 7111 and the Dragon for me to submit to the "Chain of Command". At this time the chain of command in question that I was supposed to submit to was apparently the one where there was no discontinuation of Dragon's mental capacity and 7111 was in charge. To me the discontinuation was so apparent and also highlighted by the fact that the Dragon was indeed locked up in a mental ward that I could not submit to a chain of command that was so clearly and apparently been altered by questionable decisions in questionable mental status.

So, to be more specific the answer is that I did disobey a direct order from the Dragon to submit but only when he was locked up in the mental ward. I consider this alone to be enough grounds to disobey almost any command but I did so with extreme care and the best possible continuation of the KotD in mind.

For future reference I would suggest at least these evaluations that are clearly codifiable:
  1. Being locked up in a mental ward deems any SA member incapacitated from the chain of command.
  2. Administrative decisions during substance abuse or otherwise altered state of mind should be avoided. If such decisions are still made, a sanity check procedure must be in place for confirming their validity before execution.

seonsakke
Posts: 167
Joined: 2019-07-16, 19:01
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 560 times
Finland

Re: CM49 Discussion about temporal mental state affecting decision-making and its judicial implications

Post by seonsakke » 2020-04-26, 20:23

YG, I wish to add that anything even remotely resembling insubordination from SA-NUKEM, as stated above, coincides with the time of the Dragon’s incapacitated state and the this declared viceroyalty of the named Duke. Thus, it would not constitute insubordination by any means.

User avatar
Phoenix
Site Admin
Posts: 1462
Joined: 2019-05-27, 13:08
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 3990 times
Zodiac:
Korea South

Re: CM49 Discussion about temporal mental state affecting decision-making and its judicial implications

Post by Phoenix » 2020-04-27, 7:02

1. Why is arrest a sufficient reason to declare someone incapacitated?

I can arrest people too, so this is a salient point if we adopt this way... I'd first question the arrest procedure's validity but let's hear this.

2. NUKEM, please propose such a sanity check. It should be universal enough that children can successfully use it "against" father, who must submit, in addition to all levels.
The Phoenix

seonsakke
Posts: 167
Joined: 2019-07-16, 19:01
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 560 times
Finland

Re: CM49 Discussion about temporal mental state affecting decision-making and its judicial implications

Post by seonsakke » 2020-04-27, 13:16

Phoenix wrote:
2020-04-26, 10:44
This question is the basis for answers that might come up to this thread by people summoned at the Court:

JD: 1. Was there any grounds ever to insubordinate to me, during SoE? If so, where and when and how long?

2. What kind of evaluation to back the decision up was made?

seonsakke wrote:
2020-04-26, 20:23
YG, I wish to add that anything even remotely resembling insubordination from SA-NUKEM, as stated above, coincides with the time of the Dragon’s incapacitated state and the declared viceroyalty of the named Duke. Thus, it would not constitute insubordination by any means.
The the timeline of the State of Emergency (2020-03-14 -) and HIM the Dragon’s incapacitation (from 2020-03-24 to 2020-04-23)
The State of Emergency (ongoing) was declared by the Dragon on 2020-03-14, 8:00. Later records show that the Dragon was incapacitated 10 days later, on 24.3.2020.

This is declared by HIM himself, as he wrote (under a pseudonym) in the G3 Chat on 10.4.2020, 8:09, testifying of his own ongoing incapacitation:
“Today’s agenda is to get Kingdom organised socially based on yesterday’s decisions (that Dragon is incapacitated 24.3.-approx 15.4.) [...] HH Duke Nukem will be the Viceroy and acting GEN5 if he gives consent(?)”.
HH Duke Nukem gave his consent and claimed his viceroyalty on the forum at 10.4.2020, 11:43. In the post, Nukem stated Dragon’s incapacity to have started on 2020-03-24, 13:08. Nukem’s viceroyalty ended, by his own announcement, on 2020-04-23, 14:48, a full month after the Dragon’s declared incapacitation, and five minutes after the Dragon had declared having “gained full operational capability”, thus considering himself fit to resume his responsibilities.

As far as the questions of insubordination and evaluation (points 1 and 2) go, this evaluation was formed between the HIM the Dragon and HH Duke Nukem. I'm not aware of any acts being insubordination during the named time of declared incapacity (1 month). As SA-Dragon declared himself incapacitated for a time period, any acts normally deemed insubordination would not be considered as such for the duration of that period.

To continue the timeline, HIM the Dragon declared the Court-Martial CM49 within hours of resuming his responsibilities, 2020-04-23, 17:13.

User avatar
Phoenix
Site Admin
Posts: 1462
Joined: 2019-05-27, 13:08
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 3990 times
Zodiac:
Korea South

Re: CM49 Discussion about temporal mental state affecting decision-making and its judicial implications

Post by Phoenix » 2020-04-28, 11:12

No actionable procedures have been proposed to the court.

Highness is properly embraced only by ones who already have experienced it themselves:
Serje wrote:
2019-10-21, 14:34



22DW 159.46 KD30. The Dragon takes the trash out dressed in a tee. Not only is it dark, but also windy, rainy, and cold. Barely exceeding the sleet threshold.
"Hell is named after Helsinki, and not the other way round... and hell seldom freezes, that's why it is an event. And global warming is bullshit - -"

When he gets back, his thought is interrupted by the room being brightly lit and reporters teeming everywhere, seeking to catch a pose or a word from the Dragon.

- Your Imperial Majesty, they begin the address.

"At ease." The Dragon was uneasy himself, wondering what warrants such a fuss over appointment to Emperor of Earth. To the ones in the know, it was old news since years in this incarnation, and eons in the earlier ones. And most of the world will get to read this only after its publication anyway:

"Probably we will get our governance tools online, before the wider realisation about who the governor is. Reminds me of India, where in 1957 census people asked the villagers, how it feels that the British left. The people had not heard! Not that they had left 10 years ago, but that they even had arrived three centuries earlier..."

They want the Emperor to give a speech, which the Dragon quickly drafts, wiping the rainwater from his palms, ensuring that he can promptly escape to the nearest bathroom:

"Kings and Queens, Princes and Princesses, Etc & Etc,

I want you to consider 2 things. First - if someone does not get what you say/do, you think him stupid. If you don't get what someone says/does, you think him crazy. And he thinks you stupid."

After a silence someone dares to ask:
- Sir, and the other thing?

"That I don't think anyone crazy. Because I no stupid. Follow my lead."

They were satisfied with that, so the Dragon managed to escape to his personal affairs without needing to explain about Mother Earth and beautiful women being gang-raped while everyone breathing through a straw, but the key was found and tables being turned and evil becoming intolerant to itself up to self-destruction and a full polarity shift and full restitution and the energy lighting fires on piles of banknotes and - -
"They would certainly have thought me crazy..."
Others call it being "crazy".

"Psychosis" likewise is a term for highness, defined as "spending inordinately too large a share of your brain resources in the frequencies that the System does not want people to access, use, dwell in, or talk about". In mental evaluation contexts, "inordinate" might occasionally mean even one mention. Why this is called a "deficiency" is beyond me.
The Phoenix

User avatar
Phoenix
Site Admin
Posts: 1462
Joined: 2019-05-27, 13:08
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 3990 times
Zodiac:
Korea South

Re: CM49 Discussion about temporal mental state affecting decision-making and its judicial implications

Post by Phoenix » 2020-05-13, 22:47

Do mental disorders in general even exist? Or are all mental states just your mind-body-spirit complex' natural reactions to the unnatural environment?

Well, at this point the question is becoming a rhetoric one, because in my experience sickness is abnormal, and I don't really seem to age, so there is no point in dying either (with or without technology involved)
The Phoenix

HSF Loaf
Posts: 536
Joined: 2019-05-31, 0:07
Has thanked: 312 times
Been thanked: 418 times

Re: CM49 Discussion about temporal mental state affecting decision-making and its judicial implications

Post by HSF Loaf » 2020-05-13, 23:33

Phoenix wrote:
2020-05-13, 22:47
Do mental disorders in general even exist? Or are all mental states just your mind-body-spirit complex' natural reactions to the unnatural environment?

Well, at this point the question is becoming a rhetoric one, because in my experience sickness is abnormal, and I don't really seem to age, so there is no point in dying either (with or without technology involved)
Maybe give this a read. I am still working through it:

https://www.docdroid.net/nT0Shkt/versio ... losure-pdf

Here is their twitter:

https://twitter.com/TS_SCI_MAJIC12

This is older than QAnon ;)

Post Reply